Mikhail Frenkel, a correspondent of IsraGeo magazine in Kyiv. The photo taken by the author.
Can the Chief Military Prosecutor of Ukraine Anatolii Matios be called as a judophobe?
Man proposes, God disposes.
Recently I surfed the Internet and saw a quotation from the interview of the chief military prosecutor of Ukraine Anatolii Matios. So, I immediately decided to reply to it with a comment full of sharp criticism; I’ve written lots of such comments already. I strongly disagreed with the prosecutor’s words. And I’m quoting here:
“Every war has its own Parvus who provided Lenin with money for the revolution, after which the Slavs were steeped in blood for decades. He also was of Jewish origin. In such a case (it was subject to the case of German – M. F), the same might happen to Ukraine …”
Literally everything sounds pretty bad here – both playing the Jewish origin card of the “hero” and comparing a low-priority agent to a revolutionary and great theorist of Marxism, who as a child survived by a miracle during two bashings – and for this reason had a bone to pick with the Russian autocracy. To cut a long story short, I hit the ground running.
But the lifelong habit to “measure thrice and cut once” prompted me to study this interview thoroughly. I read it. And I was surprised to find out that the main ideas of Matios are very similar to what I recently stated in the article “And let the Jews squeal”. The prosecutor said that today in Ukraine there is a great danger of a bloodshed and a forcible seizure of power. The key words in the interview were “Augusto Pinochet is already knocking at our door”, not the phrase about the Jews. And this was the reason for changing my initial decision. I called Matios and made arrangements for a meeting…
When I stepped into his office, I was really surprised. There were three portraits of famous people on the walls with the quotes from their works. Vasyl Stus, Hryhorii Skovoroda and… three attempts to guess. Okay, I’ll tell you. And Simon Wiesenthal. Among other things, there were several klezmer figures of the outstanding sculptor Frank Meisler on the prosecutor’s desk.
Having made no disguise of my slight surprise, I joked that portrait and all sculptures were obviously delivered to the office special for me. But Matios answered seriously that the portrait of Wiesenthal (by the way, beautifully made one) is the birthday present of his closest colleague who has relation to the Jewish people, and the works of Meisler he bought at the well-known store in Jaffa, as he had visited Israel more than a few times.
After that, I could only tell my interlocutor that in mid-1990s I was privileged to listen to Wiesenthal’s speech at a journalist conference in Jerusalem. But after thinking about the large number of people waiting in the prosecutor’s reception office, I posed my first question to Anatolii Vasylyovych.
– The commonly known law that was adopted by the Verkhovna Rada three years ago, touched not only upon decommunization, but also upon resistance against Neo-Nazism. However, having vehemently rushed into decommunization, Mr. Vyatrovych and his institute completely forgot about Neo-Nazism. And in these latter days, this political movement was in full swing in Ukraine. Actually, very few people in our country care about demolition of monuments to communist leaders. But we must not only counter stone-still people, but also resist the main supporters of ideologies, which are antithetical to democratic Ukraine.
In the meantime, we see that the example of the National Memory Institute became contagious. For example, on May 9 brave policemen grasped an old lady by her arms and legs and threw her into their car. Yes, she wore “St. George Ribbon”, but in fact, they could behave with an elderly person in more respectful manner. At the same time, we observed many times as the football fans put on swastika t-shirts and shrieked out the Nazi salute, they chanted “Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil!”. And the security staff, whose task is to keep order in the stadium, timidly ask them to calm down. What can we think about it?
– Yes, nowadays there are very dangerous tendencies in Ukraine. What are they caused by? There’s no denying that the reason is situation in our country that has been lasting for the last four years. What’s going on? The war in a hybrid form, which results in revealing both the most heroic and the lowest traits in a man. Heroism, self-sacrifice, defense of the state also take place. These are usual things for any self-respecting people. The vivid example of this is all the history of modern Israel since 1948. The permanent hybrid war, the hostile encirclement of this holy land and state – and the desperate struggle of the people for existence.
And what is happening in Ukraine? Some people are heroes, others allow themselves to do horrible things. There is a complete breakdown of the state institutions under the name of “a reform”. But it’s easier to pull down than to build. Our reforms are beginning “from the roof” instead of a common and logic rule stating that firstly you need to lay the foundation, then build the walls, and then the roof. Indulgence of any acts of radicalism with respect to any person or ethnic group is out of the question. The state must fight against it.
To ensure this, it’s necessary to demonstrate all the preventive, legislative and practical instruments of power in order to combat any nationalistic – in the worst sense of this word – phobias aimed at any nationalities and communities. This is the way for us to follow.
I can affirm many things, but all my words will sound like slogans. And no matter what I’m talking about now, I cannot be responsible for the whole state. But due to my job position, I am the state representative in the sphere of law enforcement activity responsible for law maintenance in military formations, and I am deeply aware of the serious problems we have. But these problems, believe me, are often invisible not just to the public but even to those who are responsible for making serious political decisions.
Who am I talking about? About politicians. Our government policy has become primitive – it is populistic. One strives to be well received by certain part of the population, another one makes efforts to be publicized and re-elected, the third one is keen to get government assistance either from the West or from our eastern neighbor. And nobody sees the dangers to democracy in Ukraine, and even the threat to the very existence of our country.
When our political elite – I cannot call it politicum – signs all agreements, this everlasting populism, this desire to drum up hype by all means, to put it mildly, I’m fed up with it. And the problems are not mentioned. But suddenly, there are three bashings in a month, violence, and finally, they begin to kill an ethnic group, Roma in this case. And please note: half of the population keeps silence, another part that is working for grants, is strongly against it – but only in social networks, no more. Besides, there is no reaction from politicians. No reaction! The fact of oppression of one of the ethnic groups hasn’t become a high-priority issue in the Verkhovna Rada. Why is it so?
– They must be waiting for taking an advantageous side… There is such an opinion among ordinary Ukrainians that pogromists came down the pike for a reason. They are taken under the wings of the big (by their positions, not by reason and respectableness) personalities, the politicians who protect them “just to be on the safe side”). In the famous novel by Strugatsky brothers “It’s Hard to Be a God”, there is such an idea: “When the grey is triumphant, the black comes to power.” And it seems it’s so in our case.
– I cannot be responsible for the whole state, especially for the whole society. It is radicalized now. The society always wants turns for the better, but to all intents and purposes, people don’t want to do anything to improve their lives and just trust in the Messiah. So, such trust in the Messiah was brought to life in Israel, when Moses led all people for 40 years and didn’t allow them to rely only on manna of heaven. This is a Jewish history as well as the history of Christianity; it’s common to all humankind. But trust in the Messiah can be a low one: come and take away from others to give us. As for us, we won’t do anything, we won’t improve ourselves, won’t work hard…
And it’s a test for society. But for which society? The one that doesn’t read anything serious even on the Internet, just likes different funny pictures and videos?
– I am sometimes asked: “How many likes did your material about extremists get in the network?” My answer is: “A photo where a cat and a dog are kissing, collects somewhere 100 thousand likes. And if paparazzi take the picture of a movie star walking topless along the beach, from my point of view, such a photo can collect even million likes. I’m not going to compete with cats, dogs or movie stars. I am writing for those who are aware of what is happening in the country.”
– Unfortunately, there are always few people sharing this opinion. But there are lots of experts in brainwashing of the young. That’s why teenagers like those who have bashed Roma camps and even committed murders grow up.
– And I remembered Pol Pot and his “army”. Then in Cambodia, 14-16 year-old boys sent a million of people into eternity.
–Yes, we can remember not only the case of the Khmer Rouge. The civilized humankind must feel shame for the genocide in Rwanda – people didn’t want to realize that the Hutu killed nearly a million Tutsis within 100 days… They left behind Nazis by the number of murders. This action was called tribalism – for many people, it’s a vague and incomprehensible word, and there are almost a million human lives behind it! The whole world did nothing! The actual doers took responsibility for this, but the world kept silence…
Not to give bread but entertain the crowd by pitching them dark ideas – it’s a long-standing way to divide and rule. When one half of the society gets pleasure from observing the total lawlessness, and the second half doesn’t care, the times come that were well described by the German pastor Martin Niemöller: “First, they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out – because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out – because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out – because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me – and there was no one left to speak for me.”
These words were said by a German, who spent four years in Dachau and learned the national idea of his people at that time to his own cost. Let’s return to silence. You raise very serious topics that nobody in this country likes to discuss. Politicians are those who are responsible for the people and for organizing operation of the state. Those who first says something, should call things by their proper names, and will surely receive condemnation and criticism of many people for this. Isn’t it clear that after the silence, when they came for the Roma, they will come for others? Will we remain silent again?
– And then they’ll come for us?
– That’s it. When people aren’t led by true leaders, they don’t go into the desert and acquire the Promised Land. A state is based on two foundations: faith and the army. The army is at war – there is someone in the East of the country. Faith – well, everything is pretty ambiguous here. Ukraine practices more than one religion. This is the right of every people and the right of every person. But there must be some kind of policy, and if any threat arises, it must be localized immediately. However, if you don’t knock at the door, it will remain shut. If you don’t light a candle in front of people, they won’t see the light. But here it often happens that talking about important problems is like lighting a candle before the blind and ringing the bell before the deaf. But we must talk about it. The threat talked about is a half of the threat.
– I know that you are particularly worried about presence of a large number of unaccounted weapons in the country.
– Not just large. Huge! Terrible things are going on. I would not like to speak out the statistics, but Anton Pavlovich Chekhov said that the gun hanging on the wall must shoot at the end of the performance. During all four years of the war, we see similar criminal news in peaceful cities, villages and towns of Ukraine – every day there are explosions, shooting, grenade launchers, mines. In the center of Kyiv military men and journalists are killed. What does it mean? People are accustomed to violence, people see that the state in some part of its functions is helpless, unable to localize serious problems and receives a message that they – the people – can take the place of the state. Today in Ukraine about 400 thousand people are under arms. Almost the same number of demobilized people. What is the most important thing during the war? The only task of a combatant is to kill the enemy. His duty is to give his life for the country if necessary. So, his perception of life often becomes “black and white”. Although life is more complex than these two colors. And when the state does not fulfill its function, a person allows himself to paint white black. To apply the law of the state without charge or trial.
Almost all those who came from the war, and I can say it for sure, brought a weapon with them – it could be either trophy, or milsurp, or simply stolen weapons. I do not want to disclose statistics on the loss of weapons. But only in the past four years, police officers and other law enforcement agencies have seized almost 15 thousand kilograms of explosives, more than 300 mines, several hundred grenade launchers, thousands of pistols and rifled automatic firearms. But this is only, probably, a tenth of the existing weapons – this is what they have managed to find. Recently in the Kyiv region, in a rural house, from a recently demobilized citizen were seized 55,000 cartridges, MANPADS – for shooting down aircrafts, rocket anti-tank launchers, mines, 17 assault rifles, pistols, and so on. Just in one rural hut. Are these statistics interesting to someone from the authorities? Do you remember the recent incident when, after a quarrel, a civilian returned to a cafe and threw a grenade? Nine people were injured. There could have been more.
A person can, sometimes, “swallow” what he is fed – if he does not think about what is happening. And if the authorities do not react to lawlessness, do not lead his people through the desert to bring them to the Promised Land inspired to build their powerful state. I’d like to again mention Israel as an example. And this is not because you are the editor of a Jewish newspaper. Because there is no other such example in the world. We have a country, we are trying to build a state that should become a subject of politics in the world rather than an object and a testing ground for all modern technologies. Dynamics, decorations and scales change, but good and evil, mercy and cruelty – they have always been and remain the same. Therefore, I believe that there is a very big problem in our country with the politicum that does not react to threats to the very existence of the state called Ukraine.
I really do not like the phrase “expressed deep concern”. I do not know this form of action. I know: if I said so, I did it. And I got a praise for it or not. A lot of people have been replaced in the law-enforcement during the period that I’ve been holding my position. I know and understand what’s going on, and I’m doing my job. Therefore, things related to the worldview that I have to say are based solely on real knowledge of what is happening at the backstage, invisibly to all – primarily to the society. Sometimes the therapy is sparing, and sometimes you need radical, surgical treatment. And if you do not call things by their proper names, then you can charm the disease away, make a Voodoo doll and shamanize, but it will come to no good.
– Isn’t it too late to stop this mayhem with weapons?
– It’s always too late, but if you do nothing, it will be impossible to stop. Too late – because the war has been going on for four years. Nobody knows when it will be over. The society is not ready to living in the state of constant war. It wants to assign the guilty. Who will it appoint after the Roma? I don’t know. But I can guess. It’s most convenient to assign the guilty. And we all remember well who in our bad tradition was to blame for the fact that there is no water in the tap.
I come from the city of Chernivtsi. In 1990s almost 300 thousand people lived there, and half of them were Jews. So it happened – people of 139 nationalities lived in the city. There has never been any problem of coexistence. And they all lived like in a small Jewish courtyard in Odessa, where Moldovans, Romanians, Bulgarians and all the rest live together.
– By the way, people in Chernivtsi were offended when Mila Kunis said that her family had left the country because of anti-Semitism.
– Mila Kunis was taken to America when she was a little girl, so she could not really remember anything. Why did she say that? Nobody knows. But she recently visited her homeland. Everybody, and I know a lot of such people, feel like coming back to their homeland. By the way, the chairman of the Israeli Knesset was also born in Chernivtsi.
– Yes, Yuli Edelshtein is from Chernivtsi.
– And returning to the stories of my acquaintances – today there is the trend of returning those who left the country during the first, the second wave of emigration – in the 70s, 90s – to their hometowns. They come and buy their parents’ apartments, repair them. A man strives to return where he lived. I love my country, I love the people living in it. But if nobody tells the society that it is ill, the country and the state can land in the grave.
In such conditions I must do what my mother once taught me. She taught me: be a man, call white, call black – black. I can afford it. I can look like a white crow. I’m not afraid of this, because I have a conscience before God, no matter how lofty it may sound. I say what I think is possible. And not only I say it, but also do so. Some of the authorities believe that if they don’t raise these problems, they will disappear by themselves – tomorrow there will be a football match, then the vacation period will begin, with taking photos in the sea and in Turkish hotels, and so on. And soon autumn will come, the election season will start, when all the cards will be played by all the players: populist politicians, and our neighbors in the first place. We still have not fixed the issue with Tomos (note: Tomos is a decree issued by the Primate of the Orthodox Church on a certain important issue related to church organization). It’s the issue related to the world outlook. Should the state react to this? Well, in the circles of narrow-specialized experts, this issue is discussed and commented. But who reads this? People watch TV. If the screen shows them how a Roma camp was being struck down and a man killed but doesn’t show how the state puts down this outrage with a heavy hand, everyone understands that there will be further attacks. And our society is accustomed to violence. Even the statistics of losses at the front already impress nobody. And this is sad indeed.
– There was an episode during the French Revolution. Royalists, supporters of the monarchy, managed to liberate the king and his family from the fortress and put them in a horse carriage. They headed to Spain. But almost at the very border, the carriage accidentally stopped by the drunken patrol, the passengers were recognized and returned to Paris. In Paris the king and queen were executed. Why am I saying this? Some of our top officials, obviously, hope that they have other means of transportation now. That if anything happens, they will reach Boryspil in 30 minutes, board a charter, fly away, and then observe what is happening in Ukraine from Vienna or London. I told this story to one of them and said – yes, you can manage to make it, but there is a probability that you won’t make it. And he looked at me very anxiously.
– With the current means of communication, everyone knows exit roads from Kyiv and location of the airfields. There aren’t a hundred of them; planes do not take off from farm field. Previously, the places to seize include the telegraph, the post office and the railway station, and now it’s the airport. Close the road to the airport – and that’s all. I say that I am aware of so many things that are the state secret. I see the threats, and I have to talk about them. But they do not react to the fact that Pinochet knocks at our door. Read my interview and remember – who is Pinochet? Oh! A powerful hand.
Yes, Pinochet was a powerful hand. But his hands were hands are coated with blood.
God forbid that such things should happen in Ukraine.
P.S.
Here’s how the conversation turned out. Well, as for the phrase about “Jewish origin”, we did not come to a common opinion. I still think it was awkward. And Matios himself believes that anyone who reads this interview to the end, fully understands that he didn’t – and doesn’t – have anti-Semitic motives.
Well, it happens. As for the possible arrival of Pinochet, the Chief Military Prosecutor, I’m afraid, oh, how right.
So it goes…